Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
thanks jacqui,feeling a bit more chilled this morning.
.but be warned all ye moaners im on to you.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
What's wrong with opening bars and cafes with seating outside, in the Market Square? It works in thousand's of places worldwide. You don't stop improving things because of a few louts you improve things to stop the few louts and benefit the mass.
I agree with Brian, urinating etc is only happening because it is being allowed , more policing, dishing out fines will help.
Phil's right, especially with the importance of it all being themed on Family.
I referred to some as louts earlier, but they are not all at fault, some just don't know any other way to act. Show them a bit or Family Community and some might respond.
I shopped in Dover yesterday and it was packed and bussing, I then went to Tesco's to buy cheap suit and it was half full. Not sure what to make of it, one off or new trend, who knows?
Litter is a problem everywhere, but Dover town centre is quite bad, I saw the usual cleaner with his trolley and helping hand, come on DDC or DTC, he hasn't got a hope of keeping up with fag ends let alone litter. A proper wet sweeper is needed, and if you say you have one, then it not used properly or not enough.
I also noticed a practise of painting or spaying white arrows and other symbols on paving throughout the Dover and Deal town's, I suppose left for indication of follow up work, gas, water etc. I think this does start the untidy process off and needs cleaning up, along with shop fronts.
Jacqui, you summed it up lovely & there is no reason why it cant happen here.
Installing the Giant TV and opening up the Market Square as the Towns social gathering place, will upset a few people but will benefit many more.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Some lovely, lively and positive posts - hurrah!!! Paul W is right, think small and you are small. And, absolutely, let's mix it up socially a bit with genders and ages - it can only be good!! Come on Chaps - let's get Dover moving!!!!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
thats the one less chat more action,and this time see it through to the end and beyond.
Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
Interesting points of view from many of you on this - who's coming to the Planning Committee Site Meeting discussions at the Town Hall at 11am today? All who sent official comments to DDC regarding the planning appliocation should have been advised.
I drove to Poprtsmouth on Sunday to see their Big Screen and discuss with one of the Ciity Council's officers how they manage it - very interesting.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
Yes I shall be there .Interestingly one of the objectors has visited nine sites where these screens are located .IM hoping his letter will be read out at todays meeting .It should be interesting to see how many turn up today .I hope Nigel like you like me have been barred from the Market Square site visit and only allowed to speak whilst at the Town Hall .Democracy ????
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
Have been having a bit of a think about the Market Square and discussed it with Andy Stucken over a pint on Sunday.
Love the idea, of course, of cafe culture around its edges, the fountain and the big screen in the middle, etc. But Andy and I agree that the pedestrianisation of the Market Square, Cannon Street and Biggin Street is a problem. Bizarrely it seems to impede decent footfall, rather than encourage it.
Unfashionable I know, and against contemporary wisdom when one thinks of the fuel-smutting lung-clogging horrors of DHB Townwall Freeway down the road, but isn't it about time we ripped up the precinct and allowed limited traffic through the lower part of the town centre again?
What does everyone reckon?
White Army!
Andy
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
I quite agree Andrew .Once the traffic was banned through Market Square so the trade diminshed .Its amazing how a view from a bus window can draw you into a shop .The Market Stalls there on a Saturday were great .
Just been to the public meeting we now wait and see .
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
sue,there is still a market stall in the market square on a saterday.it does a good trade allday.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
Its not in the Market Square and not so many stalls .
Yes its Dunfords who run it .
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i think you will find it in what is classed as the market square,its a fruit and veg stall you dont expext them to sell your sunday joint or a cup of tea now do you.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
an excellent meeting, i particularly enjoyed listening to factual stuff from the experts.
it appears that noise is limited to an area very close to the scene, anti social behaviour goes down and businesses prosper.
most of all people enjoy the experience.
i would be very surprised if the application is turned down on the 2nd of april.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
Hullo Howard ,
Where were you sitting then not my side of the Town Hall .If you listened to the planning officer there were very strong reasons to refuse the application .After all we are always being told about planning policies .
I hope that at the end of the day the voice of objection was heard .You should have come up to me Howard you dont have to pay for the privellege .
The press were not there .Nor Mr Boland
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i was sitting next to nigel the same row as you.
you seemed very busy with your friends there.
the planning office(in my opinion) was broadly in favour, giving both arguments.
i only knew about the meeting when i logged on this morning to this site, the press and the forum(paul) will be a bit miffed, i feel.
there was not even a notice outside to let people wandering past know that a meeting was on.
incidentally, one of the ladies sitting next to you had a very serious illness and operation last year, is she still recovering well.
forget her name, lives in dolphin house.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sue, planning policies are much like most other 'policies'; used by the government both locally and nationally to prove whatever they like and often disregarded when concerning something they want to do! When you have speak to some of these planners about their 'DD5s' or such policy, the lack of qualitative or quantities descriptors gets exhausted very quickly, very soon you're left with the subjectivity of the individual, and that's little more than our opinions now.
Andrew, I agree with you and Andrew to a point. The problem I see is that the areas you mention don't really exist as either vehicle or pedestrian areas. OK, so there are some signs suggesting it a pedestrian zone, but there is nothing really stopping anyone driving up the middle of town. There is also a an abundance of double yellow line, not something you see a great deal of in the pedestrianised precinct of Norwich city centre for instance (why would you need them) The fact is Dover doesn't function as one or the other and actually at present has an inability to.
The space from the market square to the town hall is on the most part poorly conceived (the result of poor post war planning (gotta love those planners, they really know what they're doing!) Many shops have poor or no loading space depending on access to the front of the shops. For pedestrians, potentially 'car free' areas are always going to be interrupted by roads that allow the town to function, and as you say impede footfall. As I say I do agree with you to a point but the problem extends much further than the areas in question!
Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
Yes, good to see you again this morning Howard.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
I have sat on many planning committee meetings as i was on the committee for ten years .What always amazes me how an application for a small extension or someone paints there shop the wrong colour is rejected .When a major application such as this comes along people who donot understand the system can say planning policies donot count .The officer to day was very clear at explaining the policies .The point I made when i raised my objections .THis screen will be detrimental to the Conservation area and to the urban realm .There will be a conflict with pedrestrians trying to walk through the Market Square .
I spoke to several people on my way home and they were against it .Sadly the event was not advertised .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
hardly scientific is it sue?
"you spoke to several people on their way home"!!
maybe gallup and mori will change the way that they seek a cross section of opinion?
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
I spoke to loads of people on the train who were all for it
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Well I've never heard of Dover's town centre referred to as an 'urban realm' before.
Perhaps it was a phrase taken from Annex D of DDC's 'The Corporate Strategic Core Development Urban Infraspace Planning and Development Solution Assessment Proposal for the Dover Socialsphere (2009)'.
